Welcome to A Personal Touch, a chance to learn more about ordinary people who do extraordinary things to improve our world. Today we have a chance to honor a man who had a tremendous impact on his family, on his community, and on the LDS music industry, too. And that’s just to name a few. Earl Madsen, champion to some of the most inspiring music and most inspiring talent that has ever been recorded, passed away in December of 2009. While our thoughts and prayers continue to be with his family, I’ve gathered two musicians who count themselves lucky or blessed to have been friends with Earl for many years. So welcome, Kevin Peay and Sam Payne. Thank you so much for joining us to honor Earl Madsen. Thank you.
A: Thanks, Rebecca, for having us.
A: Thank you. It’s nice to be here.
Q: Well it is a wonderful chance as we look at a new year and we look at the future of music. Before we do that, because Earl was always about moving the music industry forward, I want to take this time to take a moment to go back. And Kevin, I guess it would be very appropriate to start with you, because years ago you and Earl were able to meet and talk a little bit about your group, Afterglow, which was one of the most tremendous successes in the LDS music industry—one of the very first big acts. Tell me a little bit about what that was like? What Earl Madsen was for you as a musician?
A: When we met Earl, it was in the office of Deseret Book and we learned that he had taken the head of an A and R position and a producer's position, along with Kenny Hodges at the time. And from the day that I walked into Earl's office, I knew that there was going to be a fast, long friendship based upon his approach, his kindness, his demeanor, and his soft spoken ability; although in that soft spoken ability, you could see a mountain of knowledge and intuitiveness in regards to the industry vision, and a number of different things. From that day forward, I think we were propelled, as Joe and I looked at where we were strategically headed with Deseret Book and other projects, we were fortunate enough to have a new mentor in our camp that would provide strategic direction. He would do it without guile and he would do it with the utmost respect for every musician across the board, yet have a unique ability to really grill down on you individually and your need. What would be the best thing for you and your group and what you were trying to accomplish?
Q: What did you see, Kevin, when you spoke with Earl back in those early years? What did you see as his vision of your music and music that is faith based?
A: Well, everybody was at that point in time, back in the early ‘80s and the late ‘80s, as we progressed, trying to figure out really what we were trying to do, because we had gone from spiritual to love songs and moved into hymnals and then eventually into Christmas. But Earl was always providing detail. He was always providing direction with insight sound concept. He was always giving great feedback in regards to arrangers; because Joe and I, both of us—and I know if Joe were on the call today, he would say the same thing—we don't have a great ability to actually hear the extension of music. We can write a chord line and a melody line but to be able to be—for Earl to hear that and to be able to point us to the direction of the arranger, that would make sense for us to have the overall concept come to the magical spot of full production. Who would be the best suited for the songs that we wrote, and/or the project at hand, who would be the best suited. It was an incredible visionary process to be able to watch him mentor that process along with others with insight, The Deseret Book office, and inside the industry.
Q: And I like what you said, “That in the beginning, we weren't really sure what you were onto.” I mean Afterglow really took over the LDS community by storm. Everybody started saying, "You know what? I can hear my belief in music and I want to hear more of that." And I want to bring that to Sam Payne, and Sam, thank you for being a part of us as well. You have been working with Earl over the last few years. You have now seen on the book end of Earl Madsen’s influence. Tell me about your experience with him and how he’s helped you.
A: Well, I'll say to hear Kevin talk about Earl's influence on him early in the game, that is so similar to the Earl that I knew in just the last few years of his life. And that's the thing I think that characterized Earl better than anything else for me: that the fire never died for Earl. He never got jaded as a lot of people do working in the industry. He loved musicians. He loved musicians. And Kevin used the word ‘mentor’ a couple of times. That really is a good descriptor for Earl. He was doing the very same things for me that Kevin described in doing for them: pulling me aside and saying… Earl understood that 90 percent of the music industry is something else besides making music. The songwriters and performers had a good handle on their 10 percent, but a lot of them—me included—are oblivious to the remaining 90 percent of what it takes to put together a music career. And Earl had a pretty good handle on that 90 percent. Again, he loved songwriters and he knew what songwriters—he knew what musicians were. He knew where their heads tended to be. He could sit down with a songwriter, with a musician, with a performer and expand their vision to include some of the things that they ought to be thinking about as they put together a music career. And there was a real contagious passion. Even though Earl was a little soft spoken, there was a real contagious passion and just a real personal interest that he took in so many people.
Q: And Sam, recently you wrote a blog and you talked a little bit about Earl's legacy and what you will remember him by. It really struck me that this is a man who believed in the power of music and he believed in the influence musicians can have in this world, and that he wanted each musician to feel like they could leave their imprint or their footprints in the sand, per se, in life. We’ve lost that man, which has caused a lot of pain for so many musicians. Yet you said, too, that he understood that in order for the LDS music industry and all faith music industry—in fact, music as a whole, correct?—you need to have people who understand the other 90 percent: the part of promotion, the part of advertising, the part of what it takes to really build the music. Where are we now at 2010? And I'll go to you, Kevin, as you were talking to Earl in the latter years before he passed away. Did he feel like we had reached our precipice or did he see more and more growth in the music industry?
A: He was all about continuation of artist development. Nobody has arrived and actually been put to pasture in Earl's eyes. Plus he was so much about new artist development and letting people glean off of those who may have had the opportunity to go a little bit before, and he would make phone calls to me or to other artists, and he would bring the community together. He would do what we call to a certain extent ‘artist share.’ And that could have been on a conference call. That could have been at an event. That could have been at some type of a workshop. That could have been at the Inspirational Awards, the Pearl Awards, whatever it was. It was all about championing the industry moving forward and making artists feel like they were really contributing. I loved what he used to say as we would collaborate about a symphony, and that there were sections in a symphony, and each individual artist or musician or whoever it would be would have their sections within… inside the overall symphony playing for the Master. And everybody would have their unique tools and instruments and their sounds and those types of things that they would bring into the one overall orchestra that we all had a part to play in. It was important that we continued to expand that orchestra and that symphony so that it became bigger and bigger and bigger and influence more and more people. So for Earl, it is a continuation not only in mortality as he exemplified, but I know for a fact that there's something that he's doing on the other side to continue that symphony and orchestra forward: piece by piece, little bit by little bit, for the orchestration for the Master to return. And it’s profound what he has done. It is profound how he continues to inspire us moving forward. He will be forever branded in my heart and mind through him and his family and those that he associated with. There are many inside the industry, all of the artists, I mean, when you went to the funeral as we all stood and sang or we were part of the audience, or whatever it was, you could just feel that there was a coming to and a coming about and more importantly a confirmation of moving forward and helping each other to progress and not die, not let the music die, but let the music continue to live.
Q: Wow. And I could not have thought of a more beautiful symbol of an orchestra and the vision of Earl conducting, whether he's conducting us here on Earth or beyond the Veil. Sam as Kevin indicated, Earl did have that view of wanting to make sure that more artistic work was created, and fostering new talent and new growth within the music industry. And in so doing, he was very much aware of your role with LDS Radio. Talk to me a little bit about that in terms of the growth. Did he call you and encourage you then to give new artists a try? I’m curious how your role as a radio station, I’ll say, “manager,” how that played in with your relationship with Earl, too.
A: Yes, Earl was instrumental; more than anything, in helping me get my head in the right place. I worked in radio before, but LDS Radio is a little bit—it’s an interesting duck, you know? It’s kind of a different thing than other conventional radio. And Earl was instrumental in shaping my perspective and giving me the vision of not only what was happening in the industry but what could happen and how wide the parameters could be while at the same time maintaining particular focus that our audience would respond to. YourLDSRadio has gone on to be a great success and I attribute a lot of that to the perspective gained around the lunch table as Earl and I would down a couple of burgers and talk radio. He was very interesting. Again, he loved music, he loved musicians. I keep saying that because I think a lot of people in the industry do tend to kind of get jaded a little bit and they tend to lose the tingle, lose the magic, the sense of blessing and gift—that being able to make music in the kingdom. But Earl never lost that wonder. His ears were always tingling; his head was always having ideas. And I’ll tell you one thing that we would all do well to aspire to, I think, is to live our last years the way that Earl lived his years. I mean, a lot of people will build something and build something and build something and then sit back and let the thing that they’ve built feed them for a while. I mean, even in the last few months of his life, Earl was embarking on new ventures and charting untried waters and it was just a real inspiration.
Q: Well, and I appreciate that. You were talking about holding onto the tingle and I remember thinking, “Every time I saw Earl he had a twinkle in his eye.” Because he was there to talk with me about radio, about music, and about the new musician or the new album or the new CD that was out—how passionate he was about that. One quick question for both of you, and again, I appreciate the opportunity you give each of us to get to know Earl a little bit more through your voices and through your experiences. If we look at the legacy that Earl left behind, and Sam, you gave as an idea here that Earl continued to reinvent himself; continued to be involved in what he loved. If there is a legacy for us to move forward, to honor Earl Madsen and his lifetime of effort, what would that be? And I guess I’ll go to you, Kevin.
A: I talk to people usually on a weekly or a monthly basis where they want to move forward in some type of a project. They want to give their gift. And the one thing that Earl has taught and always has encouraged me to do is to encourage people to move forward despite odds and be sensible about it because there is an economic factor to it. But the gift factor as Sam mentioned, and giving of the gift, as long as that is your primary purpose the opportunity and the gift will be received by those who listen to it and those who receive it. He will feel good if you're putting forward the gift and moving forward. So in my world, the legacy first and foremost that he has left is that he is then one of the most stalwart friends that I have ever known. Not only inside the community but outside as we’ve talked about life in general, as we’ve talked about his belief, as we’ve talked about his honoring his belief and the things that he believed in, his covenants, his priesthood, all of the things that he believed in: his family, his daughters and life after death. Just being able to talk through those things, those legacies and his testimony in the industry, whether it's related to music or whether it's spiritual power that he has given me, is the legacy that he will leave for me to live on and to carry whatever he has done in the past for me—to carry it forward with our music. But more importantly to live my life better, to live it better so that I can be better for when my time comes to go to the other side.
Q: Thank you, Kevin, Kevin Peay of Afterglow, and of course you have also re-invented yourself in many different roles within the music industry. Thank you so much for your thoughts on that. Sam, a legacy for you?
A: I'll tell you what, Earl—if I adopted anything from Earl, if I’ve tried to get anything from Earl, it is a willingness to embrace and a willingness to champion the innovator while at the same time embracing the place that we have come from. I'm talking primarily about where we’ve come from musically. A lot of new artists I think will tend to sort of thumb their noses at the music of ten years ago or 20 years ago or 30 years ago. They want to come in and take everything—take the music world by storm and Earl was all for that. And he would help a young artist find their way toward that goal, but at the same time Earl was quick to see the seminal virtues of all that had gone before—all the music that had gone before—and would be quick to point me, for example, to a lot of that; a lot of this created and produced and marketed by those who had gone before me. And that for me was, I think, a lifelong lesson to champion the innovator but at the same time embrace that which has gone before. Embrace the place that we're coming from.
Q: And that in itself whether you are talking about the music industry or life itself would be a wonderful principle to live by. Sam Payne and Kevin Peay, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule, and for sharing with us some thoughts as we honor Earl Madsen: his life, his passion, his art and his work as we move forward into 2010. Thank you so much for joining us for this week’s edition of, A Personal Touch.
A: Thanks, Rebecca.
A: Thanks for having us.
Q: Thank you.
End of interview.
